New male quicksand mailing list

[Billie Bonce]

I feel I have to reply to Billie Bonce as unfortunately I think his comment is a straw man.

Gays aren't looking for any 'special treatment' as the comment implies. All we are looking for is not being marginalised; sandquick has highlighted one of the key grievances - that seemingly everytime a male scene is posted there is a "pity it's not a woman" comment. Whether this is intentional homophobia, accidental or just tactlessness I don't know. What I do know is that a number of the gay guys here see it as a continual slap in the face, effectively saying that even the few scenes, images, etc. that are posted are still too many. Despite the great efforts of Duncan et al, you can't help but interpret that as you not being welcome.

Sorry, I don't know what is meant by "straw man". And sorry in advance that I won't answer any following posts, because I go for 10 days to a place where I don't have any Internet connection.

Well, so what do you want? Just inform me that people often post those "pity it's not a woman" comments? I do know it. Honestly speaking, I don't care what gay guys feel about it, but one day Nessie told that she doesn't like such comments, so since then I noticed how often they appear. Yes, women are also a minority here.

So if you just want to inform me (and maybe other members of the forum), it's OK. But if you want to ask people to avoid posting such comments, then it exactly means that gays ARE looking for 'special treatment', what you attempt to deny.

Maybe it does come down to what Billie Bonce has said and the majority of people here don't want to see male content. If so, creating a separate mailing list may have been the right idea and solves two problems.

It goes without saying

It's still very sad.

It's your opinion. My opinion that it's good.

By the way, you can set poll here and determine the percentage of those who want or don't want something.

[Nessie]

Honestly speaking, I don't care what gay guys feel about it, but one day Nessie told that she doesn't like such comments, so since then I noticed how often they appear. Yes, women are also a minority here.

"I wish it was a girl" is probably the truth for most of the guys here and I'm not one to ban the telling of the truth. It's a legitimate opinion, and it's a small irritant to me, not a major one.

But I will confess that after a rough day at the day job followed by fighting the way home in rush-hour traffic, "I wish it was a girl" on the only male scene posted that day doesn't exactly soothe the soul, calm the mind or warm the female quicksand cockles (what are cockles anyway? do I have any?).

What's funny is, while I know they have nothing gain by considering the gay male reaction, most of these same guys wish fervently that more women would join up here.

Nessie

[Atmosphere13]

To answer a few questions:
- Hopefully people here won't misinterpret the intentions as to why this list was created. Quicksand Fans is a great place and the admins deserve kudos for setting it up and running it so well. However, currently this forum is 95% straight and although the list isn't 'gay only', it was the result of discussions with other guys who felt they'd like a place covering their own wants.
- Although there were similar lists on Yahoo, that provider has a habit of deleting them randomly and without warning. Also, spam control was quite poor. Hence a different approach.

You are certainly welcome to advertise and promote your list here. Good luck and I hope it turns out to be what you are looking for.

I'd just like to remind everyone of the rationale behind producing the mailing list/group and the intent of the post (see above), which seems to have become lost in a debate bogged down (pardon the pun) with second-guessing and semantics and resulting from a predictable passive aggressive onslaught by some (not all). I concur that this forum is great, so I'm unsure why the suggested tone of this thread is leaning towards "if you don't like it, shut up or go" when all that was done was highlight another resource which would provide more male material, rather than a 'sanctuary' for gay men away from that 'terrible quicksandfans forum.' These groups, as stated, have always existed, but fell foul of the method of delivery (i.e. Yahoo and spam) so its not a revolution we're looking at folks.

I don't see segregating yourselves as a benefit to a particular group or the broader community. Please understand the the creators and moderators of quicksandfans.com have no interest in seeing anyone leave because they feel they can't say what they want here.

With all due respect and appreciation for the creators'/moderators' and their consideration for their members, I don't think anyone mentioned anything about leaving? I for one wont be. Can I not be a member of this forum as well as the mailing list/group? Can I not shop at Tesco, while also having a look around Sainsburys?

Honestly speaking, I don't care what gay guys feel about it, but one day Nessie told that she doesn't like such comments, so since then I noticed how often they appear. Yes, women are also a minority here.

I think you just highlighted both sandquick and Rob's point here (or perhaps it was a poor choice of phrasing?). Surely everyone's feelings warrant some degree of awareness/consideration - not just one particular group over another - gay, straight, male or female.

[Duncan Edwards]

I don't see segregating yourselves as a benefit to a particular group or the broader community. Please understand the the creators and moderators of quicksandfans.com have no interest in seeing anyone leave because they feel they can't say what they want here.

With all due respect and appreciation for the creators'/moderators' and their consideration for their members, I don't think anyone mentioned anything about leaving? I for one wont be. Can I not be a member of this forum as well as the mailing list/group? Can I not shop at Tesco, while also having a look around Sainsburys?

I understand what you are saying. I'm not talking about leaving for another place. I just don't want to have anyone feel that is necessary because they aren't wanted here.

[coneylm]

I understand what you are saying. I'm not talking about leaving for another place. I just don't want to have anyone feel that is necessary because they aren't wanted here.

Well, when someome gay suggests they feel marginalised by the prevailing attitudes and that is interpreted as gays wanting 'special treatment' you can see how it can make us feel not wanted.

However, I do want this to be a constructive discussion so hopefully some good can come from a happy co-existence of this forum and the mailing list, as Atmosphere13 says.

Rob.

[Duncan Edwards]

Well, when someome gay suggests they feel marginalised by the prevailing attitudes and that is interpreted as gays wanting 'special treatment' you can see how it can make us feel not wanted.

Actually I don't understand that part entirely. In my mind it is an over-reaction to people expressing their opinions about what they like to see. If people called you names or said to keep your stuff off of here then it would make complete sense to me. I just hate to see it happen regardless of the reason. My thinking behind a forum dedicated to that purpose would be that people know what they are getting and have no reason to say otherwise.

However, I do want this to be a constructive discussion so hopefully some good can come from a happy co-existence of this forum and the mailing list, as Atmosphere13 says.

Rob.

Agreed.

[YerKiddin]

Wow! I was one of the first people to peek at this thread when it started, if I remember right. I didn't initially reply to it, as it didn't seem to me it was really intended for me to begin with. (I'm one of the many here who aren't looking for men sinking) I'm kinda amazed that this post made this much impact, but upon second reading, I'm amazed there isn't already a forum here for pictures/videos/stories about men sinking. It just seems to me as being something that should be fairly trivial to add. For you guys thinking about leaving to form a separate mailing list: have you asked for such a forum here? For you mods: Why not add it?

We muddy/messy folks are not all that common to begin with. I don't see any reason we should be trying to drive each other off.

For those who want more videos with guys in them: Money does talk! I'm fairly sure that it's possible to talk male models into getting muddy. (I would think it would be easier to talk them into mud and out of clothes, but I have never knowingly talked with any male models) If you have money, get in touch with one of the producers and negotiate a custom video. You may be able to talk them into getting a cut from the sales once the video is finished. (It will likely take a significant amount of up-front money, but if there are enough buyers, it is possible to make a profit) The producers are doing what they know. They're still in business because they have a clue and are earning money. If you're willing to underwrite their risk, I'd be willing to bet they will produce male sinking videos. If there is enough of a community buying them, the producers will start doing more such videos on their own.

[Duncan Edwards]

Wow!
For those who want more videos with guys in them: Money does talk! I'm fairly sure that it's possible to talk male models into getting muddy. (I would think it would be easier to talk them into mud and out of clothes, but I have never knowingly talked with any male models) If you have money, get in touch with one of the producers and negotiate a custom video. You may be able to talk them into getting a cut from the sales once the video is finished. (It will likely take a significant amount of up-front money, but if there are enough buyers, it is possible to make a profit) The producers are doing what they know. They're still in business because they have a clue and are earning money. If you're willing to underwrite their risk, I'd be willing to bet they will produce male sinking videos. If there is enough of a community buying them, the producers will start doing more such videos on their own.

For the most part, producers make videos, not money. They stick to doing what they know and for most of us that isn't male stuff. I've got the feeling that any male oriented video would have to come from that community.

[YerKiddin]

For the most part, producers make videos, not money. They stick to doing what they know and for most of us that isn't male stuff. I've got the feeling that any male oriented video would have to come from that community.

Ah. I stand corrected. (Which shows how much I don't yet know about producing videos) I guess the world may be waiting for the first producer of male sinking videos to step up. If you think that may be you, I'd suggest you contact one of the active producers and go work a shoot or two. I'm actually doing that this summer myself, but I don't currently plan to try to film guys in mud.

Good luck in any case.

[Badger]

May as well throw my 2 pennies in here.
It's interesting that furs were mentioned earlier... there's about 6 of us here, I think, based on the one thread in Drawings about such stuff. And we're in a similar situation - there's a Yahoo group put together, and it's dead. Hasn't been any activity in it for months. But with how few we are, and with the way we're looked down on in general, there's no reason at all to try to make a video or a publisher. You don't really see a lot of "if only it was a fox" comments >.> But at the same time, there's not been a feeling of being looked down on here, and for that - kudos to the community here.
But, for what it's worth, I can understand the frustration that's at stake here. The majority want sexy women sinking, and so that's all that's made. I don't want sexy women sinking... but there's no way to get anything else. *shrugs* This isn't a criticism, nor a complaint... just me throwing a comment out there since we seem to be on the subject. I have no idea on what to do.