The Future of QS Productions

[Sekani]

As someone who would be considered by some to be an AI producer, I'm not looking forward to the end of live productions. I've never wanted to be a replacement for Dave, Fred, Michael, Kaol, or anyone else. At the same time, I'm not ignorant of the economics of these things. The scenarios I dream up and animate would not be realistically possible to shoot live; they'd cost tens of thousands of dollars to shoot with no chance of recovering little more than a fraction of that spend.

I'll continue to support our live creators to the best of my ability for as long as I'm able. Y'all have fed my fetishes for three decades now, seems like the least I can do.

[ghostofmyeyes]

There are up-and-coming markets in the world where things might yet add up, though maybe not catering to western sensibilities. And there will continue to be those who produce recreationally, not necessarily expecting material return (like a lot of the male videos).

I'm a drama fan, and while some generated videos feature increasingly spectacular quicksand, the simulated characters don't seem to be getting any less immersion-breakingly uncanny. I'm not paying money for a mock-up of a scene that, for the foreseeable, just can't work without a real scream queen to sell it.

[dlodoski]

....I'm a drama fan, and while some generated videos feature increasingly spectacular quicksand, the simulated characters don't seem to be getting any less immersion-breakingly uncanny. I'm not paying money for a mock-up of a scene that, for the foreseeable, just can't work without a real scream queen to sell it.

This is why I'm setting myself up to upscale vintage MPV/QSV locally (no limits on runtime). I agree that there's something organic about 'real scream queens' that AI has yet to achieve. We'll see what it can do as it progresses.

In case anyone is concerned about access to the original (standard definition) versions of the scenes that will be upscaled, the new Club MPV will feature both versions - as well as the corresponding photos sets, with each scene purchase.

[LobsterApple]

For a lot of people, Club MPV has enough QS content for a lifetime. There are some that will always crave for more, such as myself, but I can be pretty happy with my collection of clips. I think for the most part we are spoiled for choices, though I think innovation might help freshen things up, but someone new would have to take the mantle. There is always the piracy problem, though I feel like there's less of it now, but also less demand for the product as a whole, as I feel people have a lot more alternatives than before.

I do think it would be a good idea to make a big document detailing all of the practices that all of the quicksand producers have learnt over the past 30 years. If there is to be hope in future producers, then I believe a centralized base of quicksand knowledge would be best for any aspiring filmmakers to take notes from. I believe it makes sense for keeping the community alive rather than gatekeep the knowledge forever, of course, you can always keep some secrets to yourselves. A document of some form that can teach someone with a budget how to build a pit, maintain a pit, the types of pits and materials, pricing and different price ranges for different setups, precautions for the performers, etc. It would help everyone make better quicksand scenes I feel, both pro and amateur.

I don't know what kind of document the producers would want to make (book, pdf document, instructional videos, wikipedia, etc.), if they want to make this document at all, I just think it's a good opportunity to pass on the knowledge from all the years of experience, instead of letting it fade into the void. I hope I'm explaining myself properly here.

[Duncan Edwards]

...A document of some form that can teach someone with a budget how to build a pit, maintain a pit, the types of pits and materials, pricing and different price ranges for different setups, precautions for the performers, etc. It would help everyone make better quicksand scenes I feel, both pro and amateur.

I don't know what kind of document the producers would want to make (book, pdf document, instructional videos, wikipedia, etc.), if they want to make this document at all, I just think it's a good opportunity to pass on the knowledge from all the years of experience, instead of letting it fade into the void. I hope I'm explaining myself properly here.

Glad you enjoyed what you've found thus far. There's definitely a diverse collection of goodies to be had from all the current producers. If anyone wants to learn any of this they have only to ask. Heck, Fred offers practical experience for those who will just show up. One big problem is the cost of doing business and producing quality product at a profit. If I had the capital to start something like MPV was doing I'd be buying SpaceX stock instead.

I'm the only person I'm aware of who actually spends time every day with a dedicated email address issuing take downs. I assure you piracy is as much a problem as ever. Somebody finds a scene? Lucky them. If only they stopped at that. We consistently face those who feel compelled to share that and everything else they can get with the world. We have companies that illegally sell our product for their profit. No producer can afford to run a charity.

Where does this leave future production? The future of real scenes will be the guy with a willing girlfriend and an iPhone. That's not a bad thing but I hope she's at least cute.

[Fred588]

For a lot of people, Club MPV has enough QS content for a lifetime. There are some that will always crave for more, such as myself, but I can be pretty happy with my collection of clips. I think for the most part we are spoiled for choices, though I think innovation might help freshen things up, but someone new would have to take the mantle. There is always the piracy problem, though I feel like there's less of it now, but also less demand for the product as a whole, as I feel people have a lot more alternatives than before.

I do think it would be a good idea to make a big document detailing all of the practices that all of the quicksand producers have learnt over the past 30 years. If there is to be hope in future producers, then I believe a centralized base of quicksand knowledge would be best for any aspiring filmmakers to take notes from. I believe it makes sense for keeping the community alive rather than gatekeep the knowledge forever, of course, you can always keep some secrets to yourselves. A document of some form that can teach someone with a budget how to build a pit, maintain a pit, the types of pits and materials, pricing and different price ranges for different setups, precautions for the performers, etc. It would help everyone make better quicksand scenes I feel, both pro and amateur.

I don't know what kind of document the producers would want to make (book, pdf document, instructional videos, wikipedia, etc.), if they want to make this document at all, I just think it's a good opportunity to pass on the knowledge from all the years of experience, instead of letting it fade into the void. I hope I'm explaining myself properly here.

My own opinion is that a "book" is pretty unlikely. I think just about all of the producers who have been even moderately active over the past two decades, with myself as a slight exception, learned by putting in some weeks or a full season working as an apprentice crewperson for another producer, sometimes in a related but somewhat different genre. In my case, I started by building a pair of pits and surrounding sets and then hosting established producers. I also served as a crew person during some of the early visits by others. By being a crew person, you get to see just about all aspects of the business, especially if the producers are okay with the idea of you looking to become a competitor and you ask questions. In my case I mostly just observed because it was not initially my intent to become a producer at all.

During the past six or seven years, there have been several people visiting my studio who wanted to become producers. None has followed up with actual scene releases I am aware of. I think they tried to go too fast, skipping the apprentice stage or not really doing enough of it, and trying to do their own production before they were really ready.

For what it's worth, using the indoor pit during the colder months, one could do a practice production here for 150.00 per day plus costs for your own crew and transportation and your own equipment.

[LobsterApple]

My own opinion is that a "book" is pretty unlikely. I think just about all of the producers who have been even moderately active over the past two decades, with myself as a slight exception, learned by putting in some weeks or a full season working as an apprentice crewperson for another producer, sometimes in a related but somewhat different genre. In my case, I started by building a pair of pits and surrounding sets and then hosting established producers. I also served as a crew person during some of the early visits by others. By being a crew person, you get to see just about all aspects of the business, especially if the producers are okay with the idea of you looking to become a competitor and you ask questions. In my case I mostly just observed because it was not initially my intent to become a producer at all.

During the past six or seven years, there have been several people visiting my studio who wanted to become producers. None has followed up with actual scene releases I am aware of. I think they tried to go too fast, skipping the apprentice stage or not really doing enough of it, and trying to do their own production before they were really ready.

For what it's worth, using the indoor pit during the colder months, one could do a practice production here for 150.00 per day plus costs for your own crew and transportation and your own equipment.

Unfortunately, I live very far away from Studio 588 or any other Quicksand Studio, up in Canada. I understand the whole problem of going too fast as an aspiring filmmaker, since everyone is trained to want to be the leader right away and make big productions and big moves. I had that problem, but reality crushed those unrealistic expectations and now I cherish the apprentice stage.

That being said, I would not want to be a full-time producer, too much money and too much attention on myself. I might want to make or be involved in a smaller-scale quicksand production one day, at most something like a feature like the upcoming The Swallow (without the gore effects and in the far future with more experience though), so not a permanent installation, but the best QS product that I can deliver on lower budgets.

I just thought it would've been good to have centralized knowledge of quicksand production standards, that's all. I understand how complicated this business can be, that's why I would never really want to do it with zero collaboration opportunities. I do also have writing aspirations for stuff that would be turned into scenes as well, but never felt like sharing, since I'm not sure what the QS producers are looking for specifically.

[dlodoski]

...I just thought it would've been good to have centralized knowledge of quicksand production standards, that's all. I understand how complicated this business can be, that's why I would never really want to do it with zero collaboration opportunities. I do also have writing aspirations for stuff that would be turned into scenes as well, but never felt like sharing, since I'm not sure what the QS producers are looking for specifically.

As far as writing scenes goes, I suggest submitting a script or two to Fred and get some feedback on viability and so on.

By 'production standards', I take that to mean what we refer to as production procedures. (The production standards of the existing producers are out there for all to see).

I have covered some of this at (the long suffering) MPV Trails Youtube channel. This is a good example - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRYr-wmIG9U It's about The Rules of fetish productions, as they were explained to me a long, long time ago.

As far as physical procedures go, there is an immediate divergence between natural and prepared locations, for example. And the nuances go on and on. If and when you want to possibly strike out on your own, bring as many details of what you have at hand to whoever you want to get advice from. I have perhaps the broadest overall experience, but I would need to know quite a bit about what you capabilities and goals were before I would even know where to start.

[LobsterApple]

As far as writing scenes goes, I suggest submitting a script or two to Fred and get some feedback on viability and so on.

I did talk to him a little about restrictions and limitations here: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=27700&hilit=Swallow

I was probably shooting too high, but I was thinking about it from a writer's perspective, rather than a practical one, since I wasn't sure how big he wanted to go with this scene. Bascially: one pit, two women, loose script rather than concise dialogue. I understand it from a production standpoint, but I needed to temper my writing expectations.

By 'production standards', I take that to mean what we refer to as production procedures. (The production standards of the existing producers are out there for all to see).

I have covered some of this at (the long suffering) MPV Trails Youtube channel. This is a good example - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRYr-wmIG9U It's about The Rules of fetish productions, as they were explained to me a long, long time ago.

Ah yes, MPV Trails. Those 3 rules in the video are actually good rules for filmmaking in general, not just fetish content.

As far as physical procedures go, there is an immediate divergence between natural and prepared locations, for example. And the nuances go on and on. If and when you want to possibly strike out on your own, bring as many details of what you have at hand to whoever you want to get advice from. I have perhaps the broadest overall experience, but I would need to know quite a bit about what you capabilities and goals were before I would even know where to start.

Well, I know that I probably won't strike out on my own as a producer in that sense, not someone that can possibly do that, at least not for the next 10 years. The most I can consistently do is possibly some animation stuff, since I know how to do that, though I like to study live action footage of quicksand and other things. But what I am saying is that I'm interested in knowledge, stuff like MPV Trails videos.

Now I dream of making my own (not in the scene, but directing the scene according to rule 2) quicksand scene one day, but no guarantees. I look for an all-around guide on the basics and information about all sorts of quucksand scenes. I'm a big fan of long wikipedia-like articles about specific subjects and behind-the-scenes looks into movies and shows, kind of like the 70-minute long Making of Phantom Menace that's just an unfiltered look of George Lucas' journey making Star Wars Episode 1. You can go into stuff like the dug hole should be 5ft deep for safety reasons and how peat sets, cork sets, hollywood sets are made, like the mixture and how to make it work in the giant dug hole and the economics of the pit and how it works. Not going to make you reveal the secret MPVBleck formula, but just stuff to build basic scenes and the process it took to get there. Basically enough information for someone to build up knowledge to make their own scene.

When it comes to the type of scene, natural is probably the less expensive option, minus gas, just find a muddy place and film someone sinking in, that's an option with it's benefits as well, more real and dangerous. But I feel like my nerdy brain wants to know the magic behind those fake prepared quicksand scenes. Scenes like One Life to Live 1990, Tarzan's Hidden Jungle, and and other scenes with dramatic quicksand, giant pits, and tons of thick texture like the hollywood quicksand scenes from MPV. But I also like muddier scenes with grey mud like Daniel Radcliffe's Jungle Movie and the latest clip from the Swallow. I'm just thirsty for information about this stuff. I'd love an MPV Trails episode that goes super in-depth into all this stuff.

Obviously I don't have the money to finance stuff like the vast quicksand pits from Hollywood or even the producer pits, but I'd love to know how this stuff was made, is made, and how to make more of it in the future. I know that my budget range for now is natural scene or a small hole in the ground with some perilous-looking cork mixed in, but I'm just a curious man, that's all.

Now if you really want to know what is my possible setup to properly give me concise advice here, then I should re-iterate it right here, I do have access to land where I could dig a temporary pit, not huge and sprawling, but serviceable, I can probably fit 2 or 3 people at most in there. Since it would be a homemade pit that's low budget, I'd assume the cork, hollywood, or peat stuff works the best for a low-budget range. Maybe grey "spa" mud could also work, but not sure how complicated or expensive that stuff is. But that's what I have to work with if I ever want to make a real quicksand scene in a movie I made.

I'm not sure where my future journey in filmmaking or animation will lead me, but I will always have this craving in the back of my mind for building quicksand scenes like these, in my mind and in the real world. Maybe my years of obsession with quicksand will lead to something great. But even if I don't wind up going anywhere with the quicksand stuff, it's been a fun ride.

[Duncan Edwards]

If you are on Discord you can email me for an invite to the MPV Discord at Duncan.Edwards036@gmail.com . We are often available to chat about some details.