Cinematic camera

[Chimerix]

Having worked in video since my undergraduate days, I've recently been wanting to get back to my film school roots. I've been thinking about buying an "affordable" cinematic camera and creating either an advanced class or a club at my university.

There are several contenders out there. Digital Bolex, Blackmagic Design, Sony, Panasonic, Canon... all make cameras that could fit the bill. I'd be looking at a total budget in the $10,000 range. That's got to cover everything: camera body, lenses, recorder (if separate), media, rails, plates, adapters, monitors, EVF, power, second-system audio (if needed), matte box, filters...

While 4K would be nice, it's not essential. I don't have an inventory of glass, so any lens mount is fine (though the ability to evolve to PL lenses if this takes off is obviously desirable).

I've been looking at specs, reading reviews, watching tutorials, critiquing sample media, etc. But so far, I haven't been able to put my hands on any of these cameras, nor have most of my friends. So, how about the good people here? Any of you have experience using a budget cinematic camera? What do you like, and why? What don't you care for, and why?

[Fred588]

Having worked in video since my undergraduate days, I've recently been wanting to get back to my film school roots. I've been thinking about buying an "affordable" cinematic camera and creating either an advanced class or a club at my university.

There are several contenders out there. Digital Bolex, Blackmagic Design, Sony, Panasonic, Canon... all make cameras that could fit the bill. I'd be looking at a total budget in the $10,000 range. That's got to cover everything: camera body, lenses, recorder (if separate), media, rails, plates, adapters, monitors, EVF, power, second-system audio (if needed), matte box, filters...

While 4K would be nice, it's not essential. I don't have an inventory of glass, so any lens mount is fine (though the ability to evolve to PL lenses if this takes off is obviously desirable).

I've been looking at specs, reading reviews, watching tutorials, critiquing sample media, etc. But so far, I haven't been able to put my hands on any of these cameras, nor have most of my friends. So, how about the good people here? Any of you have experience using a budget cinematic camera? What do you like, and why? What don't you care for, and why?

Might I suggest that the answer to your question is going to depend on the focus of the class or club. You have described the class as to be "advance" but that could mean different things. If the focus is to be on the creative aspect of film making then it would seem most appropriate (to me) to go with as many prosumer level sets of gear as possible and not worry about the finer points of things. On the other hand, if you want to focus on those finer points then I'd suggest a single set up of either the most powerful or versatile system you can afford OR the most widely used system, whatever that might be.

The professional producers whom I have observed here at Studio 588 (such as the people from VICE Media and the outfit that made the video for the Weather Channel, used a combination of prosumer level and even GoPro equipment.

Its only my opinion but I think the key to success in film making is almost entirely on the creative side. I have seen too many people, in this and other fields, who get bogged down (sorry) in equipment that can do everything but never really get around to actually doing anything.

[dlodoski]

From my perspective, the camera technology available at the consumer level (which is amazing, IMO) far outclasses the technology in other areas of my productions.

So, cameras in the $1,000 to $2,000 range will continue to serve me just fine for some time to come. I think that DSLRs offer the kind of lens flexibility and color depth that fans of the cinematic look crave.

But even so, I will (hopefully) add a 4k camera to the mix this coming season.

[Chimerix]

I've made a little bit of progress: I've eliminated Digital Bolex from consideration. Leaning heavily towards one of the Blackmagic Design units. I'm now struggling with whether or not to up my budget. While I can certainly outfit a cinematic HD camera for $10K, if I want to go with PL glass, and/or step up to 4K, that's not going to cut it. Pretty much all of my contenders at the current budget use micro 4/3 or active micro 4/3 lens mounts, and for a super 16 sensor or smaller, that's just fine. But it does mean that whatever glass I buy has very little future expansion possibility. I could buy an adapter and just jump into PL lenses, which would be both crazy expensive and serious overkill for a HD or even 2.5K camera.

sigh

The problem is in predicting interest. I have no issue spending $$$ on something that is going to get used, and it would be quite a valuable experience to the students to be exposed to a production workflow that is so different from ENG-style. But as is, my intermediate and advanced ENG classes consistently are at minimum threshold enrollment. Would offering this sabotage enrollment in those offerings? Or would I attract a new demographic?

I'm expecting a glut of students in Fall 2017. Maybe the smart play here is to wait, do some surveys of next year's Intro students.

[Chimerix]

Nope, nope, nope. I'm doing this all wrong, and have gotten lost in the middle. I need to start over.

Initially, the idea was "I want to buy a new toy, and need to justify it." But the more I dealt with the justification, the more I realized what a good idea it could become. So the idea now is "I want to expose students to the way things are done on high-end productions, and how that differs from what we have studied so far." The idea being, should one of them land a job with Godzilla 2 or Hawaii 5-0 and find themselves face-to-face with an Alexa, they'll at least have a clue.

So, what are the differences, and which are the most important to address?

LENSES & ACCESSORIES:
Interchangeable prime lenses. Very important.
t-stops instead of f-stops. Moderately important.
Follow focus. Very important.
Matte boxes. Very important.

CAMERA & ACCESSORIES:
Rolling and global shutter options. Moderately important.
False color TTL metering. Very important.
Shutter angle instead of shutter speed. Moderately important.
RAW recording. Very important.
Color/compression profiles. Very important.
External recording. Not terribly important.
EVF monitoring. Very important.
Cage & rail construction. Very important.

AUDIO:
Second system sound. Very important.

So, armed with this list, I need to start over. If I can find cinematic lenses in micro 4/3, then fantastic! I shouldn't be obsessing over PL. The purpose is education, not competitive production.

[Chimerix]

I had started leaning towards the Canon EOS C100. $2500 body, super-35 sensor. Still only a HD camera, not 4K, but looks to meet most of my priorities. So then I starting shopping for lenses...

Jesus Christ!

[Mynock]

$66,000?!?!?! How the hell can the lens for a camera cost more than a new Corvette?!?!?

[kham]

Take a gander at what Digital Hasselblad's go for

[Chimerix]

You have to admit, it seems a bit disproportionate. I mean, if I were buying an Alexa and dropping nearly $100K on the body, maybe a $60K lens would be in line. But for a $2500 body that's only HD? Which begs the question, who buys a camera with a Super 35mm sensor that's only HD?