Quicksand Fans

This week, marks the 72nd anniversary of Operation Watchtower, the Campaign for Guadalcanal. What is interesting this time around, is that some people are going to be live tweeting the events of the Battles, and the overall Campaign. Come a long way comms wise. Not so sure that would be a good thing today

To follow, Twitter @GuadaBattle and @GuadaLive42

It should be interesting to see, especially with live-action from some of the engagements as it were. It is remarkable, that to this day, so many people do not appreciate how narrow a thing it was, and how badly Fletcher screwed up and nearly lost the entire Campaign from the beginning. If it wasn't for blind luck, and the Marines... could have been very different. And the Fletcher apologists should note, that luck, is not a fucking plan you depend on.

Ah, yes, many naval surface engagements in that battle between the U.S. and Japanes fleets with some occurring at night. I believe the surface engagement in the movie, In Harm's Way, starring John Wayne and Kirk Douglas, was based on the various surface engagements during the Guadalcanal campaign, although the Japanese battleship, Yamato, was not involved Guadalcanal, but was involved in the Battle of Leyte Gulf.

All of them, actually. The surface forces never fought a daylight action in the entire campaign; this was primarily a matter of navigation time/distance calculations -- the IJN did not ever want to be anywhere near the island in daylight, fearing Marine and Naval Air, as well as Carrier Strikes thus planned their operations to be done well before dawn and on the way back to base. Carrier battles obviously took place in the daytime.

In Harms Way wasn't a bad film, but like most of hollywood, reality would have trumped massively for writing and stories; Never have understood why they dont use the true stories

IN HARM'S WAY was based on several stories of the war, exclusive of the originating novel. Guadalcanal yes in the early run but the final battle is more along the lines of SAMAR in 1944. I disliked as everyone does the total lack of detail in the ship models save YAMATO which was still inaccurate in many ways. Now, Preminger was an exacting man and WANTED it that way. Certainly the night shots of the Japanese shots at least can be called an EVIL NON DESCRIPT kind of image, which works a bit. They were big models too, see attached.

Invasion is underway, and tweets coming fast and furious

Time differential roughly Guad is +14 on EST

kham wrote:All of them, actually. The surface forces never fought a daylight action in the entire campaign; this was primarily a matter of navigation time/distance calculations -- the IJN did not ever want to be anywhere near the island in daylight, fearing Marine and Naval Air, as well as Carrier Strikes thus planned their operations to be done well before dawn and on the way back to base. Carrier battles obviously took place in the daytime.

In Harms Way wasn't a bad film, but like most of hollywood, reality would have trumped massively for writing and stories; Never have understood why they dont use the true stories

Wasn't there one nighttime surface engagement where the Japanese fleet was actually able to drive off the American fleet? Seems I recall reading an account where the Marines could see the flash of naval gunfire going off out at sea one night, yet the next day as the sun rose, the American fleet, which had been offshore protecting their beach head, was gone.

And, I actually enjoyed In Harm's Way for two things... there were leadership lessons to be learned and the surface engagement.

- For people who want to make the military a career and be a leader, there were certainly lessons to be learned in the film, and Henry Fonda's U.S. Civil War comparison of McClellan versus Grant in the movie drove the point home... in war you want a "Grant" in charge leading the troops to victory, NOT a "McClellan." In war, you want Rock Torrey taking care of the troops, setting the right example, and leading the way, NOT a Blackjack Broderick who's full of himself and not taking care of the business at hand.

- And, I liked the surface battle scene in the movie, even though, yes, it was done with rather large models intermixed with footage of an actual U.S. heavy cruiser (USS St. Paul, I believe) engaging in gunnery practice. The scene got the point across and was, at least to me, enjoyable. And, yes, the model of Yamato was rather impressive.

Wasn't there one nighttime surface engagement where the Japanese fleet was actually able to drive off the American fleet? Seems I recall reading an account where the Marines could see the flash of naval gunfire going off out at sea one night, yet the next day as the sun rose, the American fleet, which had been offshore protecting their beach head, was gone.

Please stand by for continuing reports from our agents embedded with USMC and USN forces

And yeah, its a BFD as they say, both in Corps History, and for the USN


The Campaign did, and you will see, had it's share of brilliant commanders, and utter boneheaded retards. Leaders who achieved glory and those who merited utter disgrace
It probably was one of the few times that Chester Nimitz made a bad mistake; the initial commander of SW Pacific Area was a man named Ghormley, who happened to be a friend of Nimitz's. He later said his biggest mistake was not being harsh enough, and letting things transpire badly without intervening sooner. But at least he DID, and did not wait for utter disaster. The man he chose as a replacement was William Halsey. If ever there was a point in time and space that sort of commander was needed, this was it.


Now, lets talk Yamato a wee bit

She basically did nothing in the war, sat out Guadalcanal at Truk, or in home waters. She only fired at Taffy 3 briefly in 1944, and THEY forced her to turn away from torpedo attack.
Now, when you build the largest, most powerful battleship in the world - secretly no less - you might want to take advantage of that, particularly since your high command has a suicidal hard-on for the "decisive fleet engagement" which somehow ends a war in one stroke. Instead, you name her 'Yamato' after the ancient semi-divine founders of Japan, immediately granting it holy status. Heaven forbid now, that this tiffany case jewel, the flagship ever get a scuff on her. Musashi, for some reason never got that status, and besides, a couple days before Taffy 3, she's three thousand fathoms down, torpedoed and blasted, rocketed to pieces. If ever a class of warship was such a colossal waste of money, and steel, then this was it. One of the further ironies of her, was the ONE TIME, Yamamoto had the balls to consider committing her to action in the Slot, her lack of a couple knots speed precluded it. The IJN had always sacrificed everything for speed. Except for the Yamato class....


Update: Marines cross the Ilu River and move on the airfield.

Also, Adm Turner has been advised that the entire Solomons Area will be subject to sea and air search today; except for the area known as "The Slot", the narrow waterway between Rabaul and Guadalcanal.
Surely no activity will be in that area.....

Update;

roughly 0900 local time

Est on CA Canberra: "The ship will be attacked at noon by 24 torpedo bombers. All hands will pipe to dinner at 11 o'clock."

Coastwatchers on the job

Air-Attack Warning;

24+ Betty's inbound for torpedo attack

13 e/a shot down by flak and F4F CAP before can drop

USS Jarvis hit! Heavy damage, 14 men lost

SS George F Elliot crashed by damaged Betty, set afire; fire OOC. Ship being abandoned


Condition Green
surviving e/a moving off

no losses to CAP