Deepsinking.org?

[spunkee311]

I preface that this is from my observation from my position. There are parts of our history I may not be aware of due to my noninvolvement, denial, or just plain density of my marshmallow like brain.

While I became involved in this community around 1998 I never heard of pacifier.com and so cannot comment about that part of your history.

The community moved from ‘pacifier.com’ to Onelist in 1998 or so. Onelist merged into ‘eGroups’ in November of 1999. Yahoo purchased ‘eGroups’ in June 2000. That is how we ended up in Yahoo Groups.

You mention two early groups and imply that their "control by just one person" led to their demise, but their demise was a lot more due to an evolution of technology. These were simple list servers and the forum format is clearly a better one.

I saw dominant control of one individual was just one of may possible symptoms that it was going down. I agree that technological evolution was very primary to the history.

Yet the creation of Deep_Sinking@yahoogroups.com went a long way to create a ‘narrower category of the WAM (Wet And Messy) interest, and a broader category of the Quicksand interest.’ It was clearly ‘open to all genders and orientations’ with no intention to ban a group of people other than to ‘be at or above the age of majority for the community in which you live.’

As it happened, the quicksanders made their home at Deep Sinking. Wamforum and Wamfanmail predominately became home to the messys. The split became much more pronounced.

Actually, messies have a thriving and healthy community. They all ended up at UMD.net.

Sorry, I was not aware that they continued to evolve and found a new home.

As for this forum being devoted to the "sex fetish aspect" I see no evidence of this. Recognizing that there IS a sex-fetish aspect is very different from being limited to that. I don't believe there is anything in this forum's rules or history to indicate lack, or even diminuation, of interest in the melodramatic.

Agreed. There is no attempt to ban the melodramatic aspect of this interest.

Attempting to place a limit on the erotic aspects of a sexual fetish is what led to the mass exodus from deepsinking.org to QSF.

Agreed. Thus those who made the exodus were those (in the strong majority) who were into the ‘erotic aspects of the sex fetish’. I parallel this to the creation of Deep_Sinking@yahoogroups.com and the exodus of the quicsanders to that site from Wamforum and Wanfanmail. The bulk of the messys were left back in those two groups.

We really didn’t see anyone posting anything about ‘messy’ stuff at DS@YG. From my observation, there is little to no strickly melodramatic stuff at QSF. Not that this was intentional. It was just the nature of the evolution.

Agreed, although it was unfortunate... I remember the time of this situation leading to the split unfolding and around that time I received a nastygram from one of the monitors at DS over some of my fakes... and issues of concern with the anime subjects I was choosing to use.

Oh! Oh! Let me guess! Jiminy Thicket! Could say more but won’t.

I think the split was inevitable... as the community grew, so did certain aspects of it, including those who see mud/qs as all about eroticism, and those who thought it should all be melodramatic peril. The majority of us fall between the two, I believe, but with greater numbers came bigger camps on each side, and eventually there would be those who felt uncomfortable being with the other faction.

I chalk it up to just part of the evolution of the QS community, and wish all sides well.

I don’t know about “should all be melodramatic peril” but I did see a great discord between strictly melodramatics, which included the underage and the powerful presence of the fetish aspect.

I don’t know what motivated the removal of the erotic aspect from DS. But they were sure left behind as a result.

Epilogue

I now wait upon Pele (the Hawaiian god of lighting, thunder, and lava) to rain his fiery wrath upon me in response to my posting.

Just kidding.

For some reason, I picture you saying all of this as The Architect from the Matrix.

[Billie Bonce]

There is nothing limiting melodrama here in any fashion.

There is. You personally mentioned many times that this is an adult erotic forum, and we must keep kids out of here. This is limiting traditional quicksand melodrama here in some fashion. Any place has its limits, and it's OK. The failure to admit such limits is not OK, though.

[Fred588]

There is nothing limiting melodrama here in any fashion.

There is. You personally mentioned many times that this is an adult erotic forum, and we must keep kids out of here. This is limiting traditional quicksand melodrama here in some fashion. Any place has its limits, and it's OK. The failure to admit such limits is not OK, though.

What Duncan said what completely true. A prohibition against stories or whatever involving underage persons is completely differnt from a limit against melodrama.

[Duncan Edwards]

There is nothing limiting melodrama here in any fashion.

There is. You personally mentioned many times that this is an adult erotic forum, and we must keep kids out of here. This is limiting traditional quicksand melodrama here in some fashion. Any place has its limits, and it's OK. The failure to admit such limits is not OK, though.

I will readily "admit" that there are certain limitations regarding age. I just took it to be understood without explaining it that there are no limitations on a particular theme within the age limits of the board. What we do "admit" here is that this is all part of a sexual fetish. Referring to underage depiction or participation without blatant sex as "melodrama" does not change that.

[quagmire_uk]

Yeah I don't think anyone joins a quicksand forum because they thinking quicksand is just a cool dramatic scenario... they search for and find this stuff because they have a kink.

Now, that kink might just be for melodramatic scenarios without any obvious sexual elements, but the reason the person is searching for them is due to a fetish.

I for one am all in favour of seeing lots of melodramatic scenarios in stories and pictures and videos, and lots of erotic scenarios, and things that try to combine the two. It's just that no-one here can pretend they have an "innocent" interest in a melodramatic scenario.

[Billie Bonce]

I only can say, I miss the old DeepSinking.org. I also miss some other old sites. Today's stuff is different

[Duncan Edwards]

I only can say, I miss the old DeepSinking.org. I also miss some other old sites. Today's stuff is different

I understand what you are saying there. Things have changed as the result of a more legalistic environment. That wasn't always the case before political correctness and the death of common sense ruined freedom of speech for everyone in this country.

[Billie Bonce]

I understand what you are saying there. Things have changed as the result of a more legalistic environment. That wasn't always the case before political correctness and the death of common sense ruined freedom of speech for everyone in this country.

This is true, and unfortunately similar things (but significantly behind your country) are going in my part of the world.

Several years ago I just laughed when people, say, divided stuff by "Saturday morning" - "Saturday afternoon" - "Saturday evening" criterion. In my country I could switch on a TV on Saturday morning and to my amusement watch an erotic scene - not hardcore, but with full nudity. Not today. Now it is regulated. (That's to say the least. In fact, any porn was prohibited by our former brainless government, and today's government has more serious problems to solve, so the prohibition is still active.)

I used to laugh at the people who are worried about where is their car parked when they go sinking. Here nobody would care, and "is it private or public land" wasn't a question here. But now we see more and more signs "private property", and actually one can hardly find a place on Dnieper river which is closer than 100 km from Kiev and yet is not private. Except for crowded public beaches within Kiev, of course.

But well, I'd like to say that I miss the old times for another reason. Not only the situation around have changed. Our community (may I call it "our"? I discovered it in spring 2005 and joined DeepSinking.org on the 1st of September 2005) also changed significantly. It's a natural evolution, and we can hardly control it. You see, the community passed through the stage of self-identification. The community got its own specific features. Most of the people got to know each other (I mean on-line contacts, I don't even speak about the real life contacts). Most of people got to know artistic creations of each other. Many people downloaded a lot of stuff from the Internet and keep it in their collections. (I did and I do. I don't think that I am alone). What next?

I can say sincerely what I don't like in today's community. I don't like that the community became too much "content-oriented". The focus of the community from "self-identification" (what is quicksand for you? how the fetish was developed? what is your story? what gets you turned on? whom do you want to see in quicksand? what should happen to a victim in quicksand?) shifted to consumption. People encourage producers to create more stuff, more sinking scenes, and as we have seen more than once, people do prefer simple and plain sinking, with minimal scenario, with minimal justification why the character ended up in the deadly mire, with minimal intro. Just sinking, and sometimes coverage with mud after the sinking. And the questions are different today (which resolution is optimum? which format is better? which player to use? how to pay? which price is reasonable?) Please understand me - I appreciate efforts that people put into creation of the photo and video production, even if I am not a consumer of this stuff. I just don't like how large is the part of these creation-consumption relations in today's life of quicksand community...

[dlodoski]

...I can say sincerely what I don't like in today's community. I don't like that the community became too much "content-oriented". The focus of the community from "self-identification" (what is quicksand for you? how the fetish was developed? what is your story? what gets you turned on? whom do you want to see in quicksand? what should happen to a victim in quicksand?) shifted to consumption. People encourage producers to create more stuff, more sinking scenes, and as we have seen more than once, people do prefer simple and plain sinking, with minimal scenario, with minimal justification why the character ended up in the deadly mire, with minimal intro. Just sinking, and sometimes coverage with mud after the sinking. And the questions are different today (which resolution is optimum? which format is better? which player to use? how to pay? which price is reasonable?) Please understand me - I appreciate efforts that people put into creation of the photo and video production, even if I am not a consumer of this stuff. I just don't like how large is the part of these creation-consumption relations in today's life of quicksand community...

Hmm. My perception is that there is still a substantial amount "self-identification" discussion going on right here in the General Discussion area. Some of it may be repetitive, but it is there/here in a substantial quantity.

As far as the "creation-consumption" aspect goes, I feel that this is a natural result of....consumption. With multiple producers, the possibility of one producer or another focusing on particular tastes is higher. I have seen first hand how demands increase when specific details are being filmed, or may be filmed.

But this is most likely happening in the contributors section as well.

But first and foremost, I believe that the "creative-consumption" conundrum would be much worst if it were not for the separation of the Producer and Public areas of the board. It does allow for the 'self-identification' discussions to exist without the bombardment of producer issues.

In any case, we'll never really return to the early days. They only come around once...

[Nessie]

I don't like that the community became too much "content-oriented". The focus of the community from "self-identification" (what is quicksand for you? how the fetish was developed? what is your story? what gets you turned on? whom do you want to see in quicksand? what should happen to a victim in quicksand?) shifted to consumption.

I think much of what you have said here is true. Things have shifted, somewhat, toward a consumption kind of culture from a discovery kind of culture.

I do think it is sad but I can tell you exactly what happened to me personally.

When I first discovered quicksand online, I had a lot of questions. Why am I this way? Why do I want to be in quicksand? Why did I want to watch people in quicksand? How many others like were there? Were they ALL male or were there some other girls somewhere? Would these other people be interested in sinking with me or helping me learn how to sink? If they did, was that good or bad?

And what about these guys with their video cameras? Was it a good idea to have anything to do with these guys who are asking women to sink so they can make videos -- or should I run like a rabbit in the opposite direction? (That took a long time to totally settle. The last thing I wanted was to become no more than an instrument of some male producer. My quicksand is MINE and what I do in it is what I decide to do! There was an eventual answer: I can do this but I do need to be my own boss.)

And what about related fetishes related to entrapment or engulfment? Was I interested in any of that? Or not? (It turned out that the answer was "no".)

While all this was being decided, I often did not have quicksand. So I invented it, meaning, I wrote stories and drew pictures and dreamed about quicksand and hung out online with my new quicksand pals.

Some people always continue their quicksand creativity since it satisfies them by itself. I didn't stick with it forever, though. That is because my quicksand creativity did not satisfy me by itself. It was a means to an end. It provided me, vicariously, with what I did not have in real life.

My creativity took a nosedive after I did the "Nessie, Quicksand Girl" video shoot. Why draw a girl in quicksand when I had just thrown myself into the quicksand, for real, multiple times?

Eventually I learned to supply myself, and that meant that I had what I wanted -- for real -- on a permanent basis. When when that happened, my creative urges began to move in other directions. It's not like I can't do quicksand pictures any more, and I have had some spurts in recent years but I used to belly up to the art supplies or the typing keyboard almost every day back in 2000 up to, about, 2003.

I am now at a point where I no longer care about "Why?" since what I am obviously, persistently, and very simply is. (And boy, is it ever...whatever I am, I am definitely it...wow.)

What really exists (in my case, anyway): It's very, very pleasurable but it is not particularly complex.

Everybody's personal story is certainly different but a lot of self-examination and experimentation, I suspect, tends to be done during a phase of self-discovery.

The core group of Quicksanders may be getting set in its ways in the same manner. You just kinda run out of stuff to talk about after enough years pass.

Perhaps we should recruit?

Nessie