Hardcore M/f Sex Scenes in Quicksand (BDSM,breathplay,so on)

[redjak6t4]

Hi Kavenbach!

I have a number of points to contribute to this thread, but first, let me congratulate you for being open-minded and confident enough to raise these topics in the first place.

Like you, I am attracted to the peril aspect of QS fetishism and the "dark side' of all things QS. I know what I am and I'm perfectly comfortable with that knowledge.
What I do not do though, is to allow my dark side to take over and govern my behaviour in this forum. That is why the one rule I never stray from is this...

I make it absolutely clear that I deal only with fantasy scenarios. The scenes that I portray in my QS fakes are not real and should never become reality. Here at Quicksandfans it's a given that all the stories, drawings and photomanips are not depictions of real life. Neither are the photos. They are posted here by responsible adults (Producers and private individuals) who never blur the line between fantasy and reality. Successful forums should be largely self-regulating and this one seems to be working nicely along these lines. So, having stressed that I deal only in QS fantasies, here are the points I wish to make.

1.
To answer one of your questions Kavenbach, I only know of one instance where two adults engaged in "dark-themed" sex in deep mud. This was a private liaison and was not filmed or photographed. I learned about it from a member of a now-defunct Yahoo quicksand group who I became close to. Since it was told to me in confidence I will only describe what these people did - their Internet identities, real names and locations will remain undisclosed.
The man entered a pool of waist-deep mud with his girlfriend to play out a Villain-and-Victim scenario. They waded in until he was thigh-deep and then she sat down in front of him, submerging until only her upturned face was above the surface. He placed his now very erect cock in her mouth and she proceeded to suck him off. The game they were playing was that she was actually helplessly bound and sunk deeply in quicksand. If she succeeded in pleasuring him to his satisfaction he might consider letting her live.
As he came closer and closer to orgasm she gradually lowered herself deeper into the mud - simulating the suction of the make-believe quicksand pulling her under. When just her nostrils were above the surface she inhaled deeply and went fully under. Anyone looking on would have seen just him, with his hard cock disappearing into the mud. Excited by the thought that his "victim" had just been sucked under he came explosively! She surfaced, having quickly swallowed his cum, so that she could resume breathing properly again.
So, Kavenbach, this was a consensual scenario that involved no actual bondage, no abuse and no real danger. Nevertheless, I think you'll agree with me that it sounds very exciting!

2.
Speaking from the villain's p.o.v. I really can't get my head around the concept of the bad guy actually placing himself in danger by entering the quicksand.
If we're going to treat a shallow mud pit as a dangerous pool of deadly quicksand and place the damsel in it, why doesn't the danger apply to the villain too? Sorry friend, but I just don't get it!
Any self-respecting villain who's gone to the trouble of abducting a female victim would surely take his pleasure of her on firm, dry ground, wouldn't he? (No! I'm not advocating this! It's all fantasy, remember?)

3.
Do you know what a Lucy is, Kavenbach?
Well, I'll tell you. A Lucy is the term used by bondage aficionados for an unconvincing, loosely applied piece of ropework. Loosie = Lucy, ok?
Bondage lovers like their bindings tight. There's nothing so off-putting and off-turning as a Lucy. If you have a damsel in a Lucy there's simply no point in going any further. Stop, untie her and start over, making sure that she really is helplessly bound when you're finished. So, if Lucy's are to be avoided in any QS + bondage scenario, the gal has to be tied up tight.

The trouble with this situation is that by doing this you've started to blur the line between fantasy and reality. If the model really can't move or get free then it's no longer a fantasy. Her helplessness has become a hard reality. I, for one, am not comfortable with this.

It's ok for Jim Weathers to tie up girls over at BondageCafe.com because he never puts them in any kind of danger. He runs a top-class bondage site and he's also into QS fetishism, but he is very, very careful indeed about mixing quicksand with bondage. As far as I know he's never actually placed one of his helplessly bound models into any kind of mud, clay, peat or other quicksand substitute. (Does anyone know different? I could be wrong here. Any input will be appreciated.)

If you want my honest opinion, properly restraining bondage and quicksand do not mix. The unknowns, variables and dangers involved are just too great. Sorry, but that's my take on this subject.

4.
The same applies for any Breathplay + quicksand scenario. Anything at all that puts a model into any kind of real discomfort or danger should never be attempted.
Keeping it within the realms of fantasy is fine - just don't try it out in the real world. I say this as a QS faker who's created QS fakes of helplessly bound, gagged and bagged females sinking in quicksand. OneSixthSinker's mention of a "quicksand hanging" scenario is relevant here. I've created faked images of these things but I would never, ever advocate them becoming reality - even for the sake of making a video or photoshoot.

5.
I can't comment on sex in quicksand because I've never indulged in it. Yes, that couple did manage to carry off a session of oral sex, but they did so under carefully-controlled, consensual fantasy conditions. The gal kept her lips tightly clamped around the head of the guy's penis as she went under - to prevent any of the mud entering her mouth. To me, this sounds like a sensible and well thought-out precaution. How she coped with the mud entering her nostrils I don't know. Sorry!

Thanks again for starting this thread and asking these questions.

Redjak6t4.

p.s.
I have considered creating QS fakes of Villain-and-Victim scenarios, but have not actually done so. The main reason is that simply creating an ordinary girl-in-peril QS fake is difficult enough. It takes hours and hours of work! Doing it convincingly with two people interacting sexually in deep mud would be i-n-c-r-e-d-i-b-l-y difficult! It might happen one day, but please don't press me on this, ok?

[KavenBach]

Hi Kavenbach!

I have a number of points to contribute to this thread, but first, let me congratulate you for being open-minded and confident enough to raise these topics in the first place.

Thank you. I feel I owe you as long and thought-out a response in return. Before I say anything though I do feel you missed a point or two in that last long post of mine, particularly my last paragraph. Yes, I would like to see such stuff produced. But I do not advocate RL rape or taking unsafe risks. I also specified that I would only expect people already well-versed in bondage and breath-play to possibly dare such an endeavor. Much as you dislike blurring the line between reality and fantasy, some people not only do so, but do so with regularity, just with foreknowledge and precautions. Unless I'm VERY much mistaken I can think of at least one of the actresses in some of the QS videos I've seen who is very experienced in bondage, and not through the QS scene I don't think. Yes I'd like to see darker fare with real sex. No I don't want someone risking their lives for it.

Like you, I am attracted to the peril aspect of QS fetishism and the "dark side' of all things QS. I know what I am and I'm perfectly comfortable with that knowledge.
What I do not do though, is to allow my dark side to take over and govern my behaviour in this forum. That is why the one rule I never stray from is this...

I make it absolutely clear that I deal only with fantasy scenarios. The scenes that I portray in my QS fakes are not real and should never become reality. Here at Quicksandfans it's a given that all the stories, drawings and photomanips are not depictions of real life. Neither are the photos. They are posted here by responsible adults (Producers and private individuals) who never blur the line between fantasy and reality. Successful forums should be largely self-regulating and this one seems to be working nicely along these lines. So, having stressed that I deal only in QS fantasies, here are the points I wish to make.

Well, that's fine. I would argue against the "never blur the line between fantasy and reality" comment, though. Like it or not, the videos produced by the very people who run this site DO blur the line. Otherwise there would be no videos depicting a dramatic sinking; it would always be erotic sinking only. I'm not saying we don't know it's acting, but the simple fact of using live action footage is a step into reality regardless.

I understand if you're not comfortable with something that looks too real. That's your thing, and you're entitled to that; in fact I applaud you for having such a solid line and not crossing it. But in the same way as I dislike and don't look at fakes because they just aren't convincing, you can easily ignore RL footage because it blurs the line of reality and is TOO convincing.

1.
To answer one of your questions Kavenbach, I only know of one instance where two adults engaged in "dark-themed" sex in deep mud. This was a private liaison and was not filmed or photographed. I learned about it from a member of a now-defunct Yahoo quicksand group who I became close to. Since it was told to me in confidence I will only describe what these people did - their Internet identities, real names and locations will remain undisclosed.
The man entered a pool of waist-deep mud with his girlfriend to play out a Villain-and-Victim scenario. They waded in until he was thigh-deep and then she sat down in front of him, submerging until only her upturned face was above the surface. He placed his now very erect cock in her mouth and she proceeded to suck him off. The game they were playing was that she was actually helplessly bound and sunk deeply in quicksand. If she succeeded in pleasuring him to his satisfaction he might consider letting her live.
As he came closer and closer to orgasm she gradually lowered herself deeper into the mud - simulating the suction of the make-believe quicksand pulling her under. When just her nostrils were above the surface she inhaled deeply and went fully under. Anyone looking on would have seen just him, with his hard cock disappearing into the mud. Excited by the thought that his "victim" had just been sucked under he came explosively! She surfaced, having quickly swallowed his cum, so that she could resume breathing properly again.
So, Kavenbach, this was a consensual scenario that involved no actual bondage, no abuse and no real danger. Nevertheless, I think you'll agree with me that it sounds very exciting!

No argument there!

As I said, a little camera sleight-of-hand would go a long way here. Such a scene could easily be played out and filmed, and as I said in my first post, it would likely be easier to do if it's a real couple in a roleplay. Now how's this: the camera follows quietly and we see the man leading the woman to the pit. She's helplessly bound. He pushes her in and watches her squirm until she sinks to her neck.

Then the camera stops. She climbs/he pulls her out. The bondage is removed. She climbs back in. She snks down to her neck again. Then the camera goes on again... the illusion is that she's bound still, but she isn't really. Thus ending the scene with her going under while sucking him off is no more dangerous than any of the submersions we've already seen.

As I said, I want to see if I can't get people to push the envelope a bit, but within reason!

2.
Speaking from the villain's p.o.v. I really can't get my head around the concept of the bad guy actually placing himself in danger by entering the quicksand.
If we're going to treat a shallow mud pit as a dangerous pool of deadly quicksand and place the damsel in it, why doesn't the danger apply to the villain too? Sorry friend, but I just don't get it!
Any self-respecting villain who's gone to the trouble of abducting a female victim would surely take his pleasure of her on firm, dry ground, wouldn't he? (No! I'm not advocating this! It's all fantasy, remember?)

Again, I think you failed to read part of my last post. I specifically adressed the "sex outside of the pit to convince him to spare her" angle. I mean, let's face it; mud is mud. You can't see through it. Sex in QS would therefore be kinda just random humping once the participants have sunken in over their hips! So as much as possible, any sex really has to take place where it's still visible. Either before while they're clean or after, with a little off-camera cleaning if necessary.

As for the bad guy jumping in... yeah, he has to be pretty dumb. Or supremely confident in something... a safety rope or something. As I said about the hanging/sinking concept mentioned previously, after a camera cut (wherein the actress climbs out), there's no reason why the brute can't use the rope he hanged her with to pull himself to safety. In fact I'd wager money a lot of women would rather enjoy the sight of a mud-covered nude man hauling himself out of a claypit, his arms bulging as he physically powers his way to safety above!

3.
Do you know what a Lucy is, Kavenbach?
Well, I'll tell you. A Lucy is the term used by bondage aficionados for an unconvincing, loosely applied piece of ropework. Loosie = Lucy, ok?
Bondage lovers like their bindings tight. There's nothing so off-putting and off-turning as a Lucy. If you have a damsel in a Lucy there's simply no point in going any further. Stop, untie her and start over, making sure that she really is helplessly bound when you're finished. So, if Lucy's are to be avoided in any QS + bondage scenario, the gal has to be tied up tight.

The trouble with this situation is that by doing this you've started to blur the line between fantasy and reality. If the model really can't move or get free then it's no longer a fantasy. Her helplessness has become a hard reality. I, for one, am not comfortable with this.

It's ok for Jim Weathers to tie up girls over at BondageCafe.com because he never puts them in any kind of danger. He runs a top-class bondage site and he's also into QS fetishism, but he is very, very careful indeed about mixing quicksand with bondage. As far as I know he's never actually placed one of his helplessly bound models into any kind of mud, clay, peat or other quicksand substitute. (Does anyone know different? I could be wrong here. Any input will be appreciated.)

If you want my honest opinion, properly restraining bondage and quicksand do not mix. The unknowns, variables and dangers involved are just too great. Sorry, but that's my take on this subject.

I've heard the "Lucy" thing before, but thanks for specifying; it's been a while. I can only stress that I offer my opinions in this thread with little to no real experience with actual bondage. I wouldn't have a clue how to do a hogtie, despite living on a farm. That's why I say only those who know what they're doing could try this stuff. Interestingly, I find myself wondering as to your personal practices concerning bondage; you seem to know it VERY well. If you practice real bondage, is that not breaking your own rules regarding blurring fantasy and reality? Of course, that's a hypothetical question based on a curiosity, please don't take it personally.

Again, as I know next to nothing about this, I merely suggest and request, and hope those better versed can come up with some convincing sleight-of-camera to give the illusion at least if they deem something too risky. I am also under the impression that those into being bound LIKE the helplessness, and true bondage affectionados do it because no matter how scary it seems, the bondage is a matter of trust. If you strap a gal to a bed and blindfold her, she's trusting you to tease her a little, rather than leave her there for a week or call up half a dozen Frat friends. But as I understand it, for many that thrill of risk is the entire appeal of the bondage.

And let's be honest. Properly restraining bondage and QS may not mix. But if you have the actor, the actress, and three guys with cameras, unless you're working in some heavy stuff (as far as I know, the peat and clay pits being used are fairly non-entrapping) it won't be hard to pull her out (or him as the case may be) fast. Again, I don't know what would be safe and what wouldn't; I merely suggest and expect those who know the pits to decide what's safe. Myself I would guess doing full bondage in natural locations --- where a few models/actresses have gotten truly stuck as I understand it --- would be a no-no.

4.
The same applies for any Breathplay + quicksand scenario. Anything at all that puts a model into any kind of real discomfort or danger should never be attempted.
Keeping it within the realms of fantasy is fine - just don't try it out in the real world. I say this as a QS faker who's created QS fakes of helplessly bound, gagged and bagged females sinking in quicksand. OneSixthSinker's mention of a "quicksand hanging" scenario is relevant here. I've created faked images of these things but I would never, ever advocate them becoming reality - even for the sake of making a video or photoshoot.

Again I repeat... some people do breathplay all the time and know their stuff. I know next to nothing about practical application of it, let alone in QS. The discomfort/danger seems to be part of the appeal for many who practice it. By your argument, that means it should never be attempted, ever. By "sane" standards, that's even true. But many people do it anyway. If it is to be attempted in a QS video, it of course has to be done by people who know what's safe, what's not, and what's harmless but looks convincing. You, in your safe haven of fakes, are uncomfortable with it, and probably consider those who practice it to be insane. But still, people do practice it, and happen to be very well adjusted members of society... often, and even USUALLY, happier, nicer people than those who indulge no kinks whatsoever!

5.
I can't comment on sex in quicksand because I've never indulged in it. Yes, that couple did manage to carry off a session of oral sex, but they did so under carefully-controlled, consensual fantasy conditions. The gal kept her lips tightly clamped around the head of the guy's penis as she went under - to prevent any of the mud entering her mouth. To me, this sounds like a sensible and well thought-out precaution. How she coped with the mud entering her nostrils I don't know. Sorry!

As a farmer, I must say here that dirt and muck really isn't as much of a worry as most of you seem to think. Then again, unlike city slickers I actually have an immune system from living in the country. I can't tell you, though, how many times I've come home from work and blown kleenexes full of peat dust, hay dust, or just plain dirt. I've gotten mouthfuls of dirt often enough, sometimes of worse stuff even, and while unpleasant it's far from life-threatening. That said, I don't know what bacteria might lurk in a natural mudpit, and of course I'd expect all actresses and actors to avoid swallowing any. I also absolutely understand Nessie's comment of mud staying OUTSIDE her body. Yes there are precautions to be taken, as always, but I think the fear of contamination is overblown by most. On the other hand, if anyone has actually developed an infection to the genitals after a sink, that would be good to know too!

Thanks again for starting this thread and asking these questions.

Redjak6t4.

Even if you disagree with me for the most part, you are welcome. I do believe, since there are many of us who enjoy the darker aspects of sinking scenarios, that such questions do need to be asked and discussed.

[Robert]

Been following this thread with great interest.

Hardcore is as relative a term as anything else. One persons view will be different then the others, and everyone's taste will be as diverse.

Penetration shown moves the video to a different level and different legalities and production values mentioned in this thread. Penetration implied keeps it for the most part in the general ball park we are currently in being "R" rated.

I am inclined to not show penetration in this forum or in our quicksand productions under the PRP name. This is not to say we would not produce them for another forum and/or audience. More on that for another time.

Breath play, and real bondage in a quicksand video...yes this can be done and has been. What you see in the clip presented in this post is real, the bondage and breath play done by people who know what they are doing and have been doing it for a long time. There are risks in anything you do. As professionals and dare I say experts in what we are doing we minimize those risks in order to achieve the scene we are looking to present.

We will continue to "push the envelope" to deliver and achieve what we want to do. We will always take the up most precautions and employ the best people we can to do this.

I encourage everyone to participate and post your views on this most excellent discussion.

WARNING: The attached preview may be to intense for some people. Viewer discretion is advised.

Please go to PRP section to view the clip

[Nessie]

A condom would only protect the guy from said filth as well, unless both a male and female condom were used, and that... not sure how well that could possibly work, to be honest.

I hesitate to call anything as dear to me as a mudpit "filth"...it might be kinder to say "dearest bog, you are just a tad invisible-life-heavy". The snails are the scariest. I can see those just fine, but they're just teeny enough to hide in the cracks of one's body, and they've got those little thin razor-sharp shells.

And Nessie, you said "VERY few." Not "NONE." I can only guess this is a deliberate choice of words. Are there any --- such as the private, maintained pits --- that you think MIGHT be safe, or safer, or safe enough?

DISCLAIMER: However reliable the others are, this is still what I have been told by others. It is NOT what I have done. But that word is...clay carries the least amount of risk. But even when we find a good clean claypit...how do ya know it's okay without testing it with your body?

Even the best of us have been burnt by unexpectedly toxic mud.

Statistics:

Despite all the mud I've found myself, and all the mud I've shown you, this is the number of possible sexworthy candidates that I have discovered all by myself:

0

Number of possible sexworthy candidates that I've wallowed in personally anyway on the kindness, generosity and graciousness of mud guides superior to me:

5

Number of these mudpits that are still existing AND have an owner/reliable mud guide open to hosting a shoot with the themes described in this thread:

0

Studio 588 has a claypit but Fred has said no. Trollwood's new claypit is still pretty fresh. If not...

Build?

At least you'd know what's in it for sure if you did.

I got lots of glop, though, that's completely unfit. Snails included free.

Like it or not there are many people who *DO* practice breathplay, consensually and with full knowledge of the implications, and who have the experience to know what's safely manageable and what's not... as well as what's pushing the edge and what's not.

I have done quite a bit of online reading on the subject and I think it's about as safe as cigarettes. Some smokers live to be over 90 and some...kick off a bit early because of the habit. All one can really say is, folks are gonna do exactly what they do no matter what anyone says.

I do believe that people have that right to make those choices...but only for themselves.

The line blurs, and I tend to fret, when It stops being a thing that concerns only oneself. What's really going on here?

Another person is required...a woman...to perform a perilous fantasy. At this point it ceases to be only a personal choice when you're scouting around for somebody to do your fantasy for you. It's not the fantasy that concerns me at all, it's the ethics involved in acquiring this woman, how much and what she's told, and the actual methods used in creating the scene.

Also, there can be no denying that breath play is already part of any submersion scene like we've all seen in the videos Club MPV and the others have produced. Gals submerge all the time, and hold their breath only long enough to cut the camera to a different shot after they're out, to give the illusion they're still in there. While not quite the same I admit,

I never even thought of submerging on a video as being "breath play"...that's just how the scenes ended. It was about the same as going off a diving board. Now, if I tried to see how long I could stay down there before I passed out because I need the feeling of suffocating in quicksand to get myself off, THAT would be real breath play and yes, I might pass out before I kicked myself out of the mudpit, and drown.

But we cannot expect too much I suppose, except for the best effort of the artists trying to produce the fare we enjoy.

It's all budget! Hollywood can blow up the world and make it look real.

Yes my tastes are perverse and most "socially sane" women would consider me evil for them, but I'm sure I'm not the only person who would like to see this happen... male or female.

I don't share any of these interests, and none of it will be happening at my mudpit or with any of my mud partners any time soon, but then again I deal pretty much with muddy realities much more than fantasies these days. I am not even particularly concerned with fantasies, scenes, videos, drawings and stories...unless they look, like parts of this thread have looked, as if they might not remain exactly that.

Nessie

[KavenBach]

I detect a *little* hostility toward me there, Nessie. A little "you want to cross a line I don't want to see crossed, so I automatically don't like you quite as much as I might once have." A gut feeling rather than a rational one I guess. But I suspected people would feel that way, and you are perfectly allowed to think less of me for it, but I still think this should be discussed further.

By "filth" I did indeed mean the unseen organisms in the mud more than the mud itself. I live on a farm; I know what lives in the muck... I'll admit snails weren't something I'd considered, though. I *had* considered leeches though... ow.

In terms of safe mudpits for sexual relations, I'll say it again: the producers know what's best in that regard. I did kinda assume that the man-made pits would be better for such scenes overall, as well as any bondage or breathplay, because the chances of something unexpected being in there are much slimmer. I also fully understand that owners of pits would be hesitant or downright hostile to the idea of letting anyone do the nasty in their pits, too, for all kinds of reasons. And like Robert just said, Actual intercourse does, I suspect, draw different legal ramifications.

Nessie, I must say you're correct on the comment about personal choice or someone else's choice. You're right; if someone wants to smoke, or wallow in mud, or indulge in bondage and breath-play for their own pleasure, that's their choice... whereas finding someone to do it for anyone else's pleasure makes it a very different thing. Viewed that way, yes, you're absolutely right: it's putting someone in harm's way for our fun. Like we were back in Ancient Rome.

That however is also why I was speaking of it being those who do this anyway that would consider filming such a scene. A couple essentially filming their roleplays. They do it for their own enjoyment but if they're willing to share...

Yeah, that's an ethical question as well, of course. And I must say this...

it's the ethics involved in acquiring this woman, how much and what she's told, and the actual methods used in creating the scene.

...sounds unpleasantly like you expect someone to abduct a woman off the street for this!! Or lie to her or coerce her somehow! I repeat, I don't expect anyone but the professionals who know what they're doing to try this!!! For pleasure or not, this remains fantasy, and as I've been saying since I started this thread, I DO NOT WANT ANYONE PUT IN REAL DANGER! I myself can certainly tolerate a "lucy" as Redjak6t4 called them; the ILLUSION is what matters. I know our producers have tricks I could only imagine to trick viewers into seeing what is desired.

But, whatever. If you wish to think I don't know what lines not to cross, you are allowed to do so.

[KavenBach]

Been following this thread with great interest.

Hardcore is as relative a term as anything else. One persons view will be different then the others, and everyone's taste will be as diverse.

Tell me about it...

Penetration shown moves the video to a different level and different legalities and production values mentioned in this thread. Penetration implied keeps it for the most part in the general ball park we are currently in being "R" rated.

I am inclined to not show penetration in this forum or in our quicksand productions under the PRP name. This is not to say we would not produce them for another forum and/or audience. More on that for another time.

Yes, this was one of the things I wondered; the legalese required. As for producing such scenes elsewhere or under another name, let me know if or when, and where, if you choose to consider it. Consider me one of those who would be interested.

Breath play, and real bondage in a quicksand video...yes this can be done and has been. What you see in the clip presented in this post is real, the bondage and breath play done by people who know what they are doing and have been doing it for a long time. There are risks in anything you do. As professionals and dare I say experts in what we are doing we minimize those risks in order to achieve the scene we are looking to present.

That's basically what I've been saying. I would only expect those who know what they're doing to try filming such scenes.

We will continue to "push the envelope" to deliver and achieve what we want to do. We will always take the up most precautions and employ the best people we can to do this.

And I thank you for that.

I encourage everyone to participate and post your views on this most excellent discussion.

So do I!

WARNING: The attached preview may be too intense for some people. Viewer discretion is advised.

Please go to PRP section to view the clip

After looking at it, I find myself wondering which, if any, scenes up for sale these might be from?

[stevensenechal]

About all I can add to this thread is that the largest sex organ is the human brain, nothing can replace it. Some of the best sex I have had has been after a day of innocent fun playing in the muck and, having both showered and slipped into something more comfortable, slid between the sheets.....( perhaps I whisper to her how much I enjoyed her theatrics )....

[Robert]

After looking at it, I find myself wondering which, if any, scenes up for sale these might be from?

They are not for sale ...yet

Robert

[Nessie]

That however is also why I was speaking of it being those who do this anyway that would consider filming such a scene. A couple essentially filming their roleplays. They do it for their own enjoyment but if they're willing to share...

Yeah, that's an ethical question as well, of course. And I must say this...

I am of the belief that real mud bondage, while riskier than simulated mud bondage, can be done with relative safety if there is enough crew present at the mudpit. If you take the sex out of the mud like you suggested, you've eliminated the "What's In The Mud?" problem, which, since you're talking about vaginas and not penises, is significant. You're now left with the expense of getting a real porn actress instead of just a model.

Because of this thread, though, I spent over an hour reading additional material online on the subject of breath play. By "breath play" I don't mean actresses submerging for a scene, even if they're pushed under by a "villain" (even I did a scene like that once). If you can get the same amount of asphyxiation by going off a diving board, that doesn't count.

And simulations don't count.

On the subject of "The Real Thing", I didn't find anything good. Nothing. Nada. Zilch. Every last bit of it was bad. It's about sudden death, mostly cardiac arrest, but other lovely side effects include epileptic siezures and cumulative brain damage when this is done over time.

Those who defended it were simply determined to do it anyway.

The issue of informed consent in performing REAL (not simulated) breath play scenes is no longer relevant if the model is from the BDSM community anyway but the risks will remain for her as they would for anyone. I am pointing that out not to argue but because it is a fact, and many people are reading this thread.

...sounds unpleasantly like you expect someone to abduct a woman off the street for this!!

I am sorry you felt this way. The remarks were not directed at you personally.

Here and there, it happens. There's a guy, somewhere, who has this thing he has always wanted to see. Because I look accessible, or we're writing back and forth anyway, or maybe because we're even friends -- I get elected.

I can't do it at all, or I don't want, not even a little bitty bit, to do it even though I can.

The problem can occur even with intelligent men who are not the least bit smack-headedly dumb in any other way, and that is why I feel that the entire world needs to be occasionally reminded that live women are not dolls to be posed in bogs. I have never felt as if I'll be abducted by anyone. It hasn't even killed any friendships...well, okay, at least not long-term ones. Annoying, though? YEAH!

At least you are asking in the right direction.

Nessie

[onesixthsinker]

The idea that I personally suggested was completely intended to be an illusion. Several websites... many of which models for MPV and others have done work for do this content often. Hollywood has simulated hangings many times. I never intended to infer that anything of the sort should ever be tried in real life, as well, bottom line is... this whole place is primarily fantasy oriented when it comes to anything bondage or even fetish wise...